0:05 one thing i see a lot that i find hard is that people will write something that's actually really great and then they'll put it through ai to clean it up and i'm like the cleaning it up is the part that's just taking your personality out of it please don't do that so it's pretending to be something it's pretending to be that i agree with that and like the message is one of

0:25 the core things that i work on with people because i you write something good something that actually sounds like you then you run it through ai to clean it up my guest today says that cleaning up is exactly the bit that strips your personality out and she can spot it every time an expert regurgitates what's already known a thought leader has fresh ideas i can do the

0:49 first one it can't do the second so when you let it write for you you stop sounding like the top person in your field and start sounding like someone copying everyone else in this episode we get into using AI to interview you rather than write for you, why niching by situation beats niching by industry, and why you should want to repel people with your message. If nobody's being

1:13 pushed away, you're not attracting the right ones either. Your content sounds fine, but nothing's landing. Stay tuned. Today, I'm joined by Meg Hutson. Meg and I met through the Only Networking Group. Meg is a marketing mentor showing solo service business owners how to land more clients by being totally, utterly themselves online. She runs a 90-day group accelerator and works with a

1:37 handful of clients one-to-one to get seen, known, and selling out. She's been in marketing for over 12 years and runs multiple businesses and now lives on the South Coast with her partner. Meg, welcome. So glad to have you here today. Hello. Lovely to chat to you. Thanks for having me. Well, it's been great. You are actually one of the

1:55 before I launched the podcast, you were one of the first people to say, yeah, I'll come on the podcast. And I think you're going to be probably episode 11. So we made it. We made it there, which is fantastic. And something that immediately struck me when I saw the bio you sent through was this how to utterly be yourself online. And I'd love to explore that a bit more and understand

2:15 what does that look like in terms of when you're working with your clients, sort of taking out of that space of maybe copying other people or trying to be like, oh, I'm going to be like, somebody else or maybe holding back a little bit and being a bit generic. How do you take them for those spaces into really being authentic? Yeah. So things, a lot of people I work with

2:35 have come out of corporate either recently or, you know, a while ago. So when you then go to put yourself out there online, it feels so overwhelming. And most people end up not being themselves. They go very formal, they go kind of stiff and like, they think they have to be a certain way. And like you said, they might start copying other people or generally what it is,

2:55 think that they're writing really authentically. It's a bit of a buzzword, but, you know, they'll think they're being themselves. And then people read it and be like, that's just quite boring. You know, it's not coming across with any personality at all. So the first step that we always work on, like the first step of my programme is purpose and personality, because it's so

3:12 important to really like, it sounds weird, but work out what your purpose and personality is, because we just are ourselves, aren't we? And then you try and put that online and you suddenly don't realise like how you want to be coming across. So we always start, by looking at like, what are your values? Like, why are you running this business? How do you

3:29 like relate to your ideal client? And what are the kind of the parts of your personality you want to put out there? It doesn't have to be all of it. It's not about like, you know, talking about what you had for dinner or talking about really personal stuff. It can be, but it's like, what parts of who you are, are you going to put out there? And that's the first step to being

3:47 able to do it, because then you can then start to assess everything that you're writing, everything you're doing and think, okay, well, does that actually fit the kind of that I've made for myself of who I am? Yeah, absolutely. And I totally resonate with so many things that you said there. It's certainly key on my, for me, in terms of when

4:06 I'm working with clients and what I do, the values purpose side of it is so important. I mean, just in the preamble before we started the recording, when I'd read your bio about this utterly being yourself and I'd said, one of my values is authentically connected. And so I've actually spent a lot of time working on understanding my values, who I am, what am I about? I wouldn't say

4:30 that I'm still, that I've actually been able to bridge that into, well, actually I'm totally authentic myself. I mean, I think it's easier to be authentic in a podcast. I'm having a chat with somebody. It's very hard to not be your authentic self when it comes to actually then the messaging and other content that you're sending out, I think can be more challenging. And so when you've,

4:54 when you've got that into the space, people are understanding, okay, they're like, we know what their purpose is, their values. They're feeling a bit more connected with who they are and recognise how that fits in within their business. How do you then help them to, to take that out and actually get their message in a way that is more themselves? Yeah. So the next step is then like understanding

5:18 who your audience is, which feels like it's coming away a bit from the topic, but if you need to relate to them, because without that kind of the, without resonating, you are just throwing out your personal stories, which is where people get a bit like, well, that's not related to business. That's not going to help me. But actually, if you can start to look at your stories and your experiences

5:38 and who you are and think, well, what is that ideal client going to go? Oh, that's me. Or like I've been through that, or I completely understand that, or, you know, any of that. So you've got to kind of look at the two together and that really helps them with your confidence to put your person out there. Because if you can think, okay, well, that story of why I started my business, it actually is

5:59 relevant because somebody else is going to see that and go, that's really inspiring. I wish I could do that. I would love to start a podcast. I would like to be X, Y, Z, and they're, they're relating to you and that brings them closer into your world. So that's one of the steps. And then it's to start to actually be quite brutal with yourself as well. So rather than

6:18 thinking, that's who I am, that's my content, done. It's things like voice notes, yourself, your content, rather than trying to write it straight away. Because then, like you just said, it's easier when we talk, isn't it? Like it's easier when you're on a podcast to be yourself than it is when you write a post for LinkedIn or you write a newsletter. Like naturally

6:38 writing goes a bit more formal. And I think that's from school. I think that's just because that's how we were taught is like, this is how you write. Whereas actually that way of writing doesn't really draw people in very well. Like it's actually quite like AI has kind of followed the format of how we're taught in school in a lot of ways, hasn't it? Whereas it's not naturally how we might

6:58 talk. So voice noting yourself is always a really good one, as is reading it out loud and especially reading it out loud and thinking, would I say this to my favourite client? Like if I had gone for coffee with that client that I got on really well with, just before we were talking about clients that you work with for years, you've got a really good relationship with, would you say it to them?

7:19 Because if not, why are you writing it? Like if you want more people like that, why are you writing it? It's like doing some tests like that and then starting to kind of, it is being quite brutal with yourself and being like, you know what, that's actually really boring. I'm going to put some quirky bits in. I'm going to put a little joke in there. It's things like that.

7:37 Yeah, that's really interesting. Thank you for sharing. There's a number of things I'd love to sort of explore a bit into that. And one of that last point was there is that danger. I've done it myself. I've gone too quirky. It's like, you know, it's like emoji blast, you know, it's kind of, like, and actually, but actually I do like emojis. So using emojis inside of, to express,

7:59 I'm quite an emotive person. So actually that works for me, but there is that element, isn't it? Also, you're also wanting to, I love this idea of, of that you will continue to want to be authentic. I said, but that, but you're looking at it and going, well, okay, it doesn't need to be boring, but also then it's how do I make it more authentically me? Because maybe, maybe somebody

8:19 might be sitting there listening going, yeah, but I'm not really out there. But actually, there'll be traits that they have that they went to ask somebody. So I remember a few years ago, I asked my daughters, I was like, what, what, what words would you describe me? And they say, oh, well, you know, you're really encouraging. I was like, oh, wow. So, so sometimes we find

8:40 it, don't we, that we don't recognise, we didn't see it in ourselves. Or even as you mentioned, like clients, if you've got on, you know, clients of a world, why, what is it you enjoy about working with me? You can create that space. And I love what you said about resonance. To me, resonance is something that when I, when I feel in my chest and I'm like, wow, I feel like that

9:00 person is talking about me. Or I feel, I mean, sometimes it's a positive and sometimes it's negative. Sometimes you go, yeah, that sounds like what I need. And sometimes you might feel the opposite where you feel like it's my need, but maybe it's, there's something a bit unauthentic, like it's very, very, very, it's a hard sell. So you feel like maybe you want it, but you feel

9:20 like it doesn't feel, so you feel like kind of a bit torn. And that's what you, you know, you want people to feel, yeah, actually, wow, what Meg's saying is fantastic. I really feel like that's something that's really important. And another thing that, and I think this would be interesting to, to, to explore a little bit was just on this ideal client perspective, because

9:40 I know that is again, one of those things where you have to be quite tough on yourself, where you're like, it's easy to go. Yeah. Well, if anyone that has this, this, you know, a business, I've heard people say that and you go, okay. That's a lot of people. And if somebody, and if in my messaging, if I'm talking to saying those

9:59 words, then I'm not connecting, am I with anybody in particular that's saying, whereas if I'm saying to somebody, okay, well, actually, honestly, I'd love to hear what you say. Maybe that'd be a great example to kind of go, what is your, you know, the, the sort of the Meg message that connects with, with people. I'd love to hear that if that's okay. So who my ideal client is, or like

10:23 which, which message? Well, so yeah, but what a bit of both of that. So who the ideal client is, but then what is the message you say, you know, you, you, you give that actually is, is designed to connect with that ideal client. Yeah. So there's a lot of those messages that would connect. So it always starts with who

10:40 the ideal client is. So for me, it's a, someone who is a solo founder, they are the business and generally they have been through the experience that they now want to take their client through. So for example, a leadership coach, because somebody had to learn how to be a better leader. They've gone, actually,

10:57 I want to help people with this and they've created a business from it. Generally, that's who it is. And then it's people who they know they're amazing at what they do. And they're probably feeling really frustrated that there's just not the clients like coming to them. Cause we're all told like build it and they will come. It's so not the case anymore. And there's so much

11:15 stuff online of like, if you just, just post more and just put DM me with this word at the end, and then the clients will come flooding in and everyone's sat there. It's waiting for these clients to come flooding in, but they don't because that's not actually how it works. And we've said, we'll talk a bit about conversations and kind of the authentic

11:32 relationships and stuff. Um, but that's my person is that person who's so passionate. They know they make amazing impact to the clients they do have are so happy with the work and with what's happening, but finding more of those clients and getting people to see you and trust you and actually pay you is the kind of the sticking point right now. So those are the people I work with.

11:52 Yeah, it's really great. And I love what you, what you did there, whereas you said, okay, you talk about solopreneurs, but you like, they are the business. So there's a number of things in there that you really honed it into people that were like, I am the business that there is that sense of ownership in that,

12:07 but then also situational. So the situation they're in and actually that they've been through something else I've been through that the situation they want to do is they want to deliver something cause they've been through that. So they have the stories they have the, so I've really, so that's really great. And if

12:24 I'm listening, I think, you know, it's a great example of, I really get it. You say that I get it, you know, and it ties in with here's your ideal client. And here's what I would say that ties into that. I was gonna say, and it's also like noticing that it's not about like I work with coaches or I work with, you know, an industry it's about the situation you touched on it there.

12:44 It is like, it's what is that specific situation people are in that you're gonna help them with? Because we all get quite caught up in this niching thing. Like you have to niche and you have to be specific. Do you have to niche different question? You know, it doesn't need to be industry based. It needs to be situation based.

13:03 Hmm. Yeah, that's great. And actually a niche can be situation based content. It's, it's still, you're still narrowing down the field to saying, well, okay, there's these people that are gonna resonate with the, what, as we talked about earlier, the, the message as you're being your authentic self in the journey that you've taken and the journey you wanna take other people through.

13:23 And if other people resonate with that journey and they go, well, actually, look, you know, this makes one of my people, oh, well, she's one of my people. Therefore then, well, I'd rather work with one of my people than I would with a generic because we get flooded. Don't we? I mean, I get so many messages from LinkedIn of various people that I could go. Yeah. You know what I could,

13:42 I might need the services. It's not the fact that there's any stuff that I don't necessarily need. Sometimes it is, but there's often that thing of going, but why would I work with you? I mean, why I don't have any reason to work with you. Yeah. If I can work with somebody that I could sometimes potentially meet face to face that I could,

13:59 there's local or there's, there's something that connects us other than the fact that we're on LinkedIn. Yeah. And I think it's trying to build relationships with people as we talked about at the start. There's that, that's when you're, when somebody resonates with your story, it's that kind of almost that spark is it's the start of building a relationship. And so how, how important is it?

14:23 What you see for people to, to, to have those, that building those relationships? Oh, it's so important. I always use the example of financial advisors, because we all know 50 million financial advisors, particularly those of us who are in different networking groups. Like there's so many. And I knew for years, I needed to sort out my pension, obviously self-employed

14:40 and I was doing it for you. Like I knew I needed to do it. That wasn't the problem. It wasn't an education thing. It was just, I hadn't done it. And I'd met so many. And then I joined networking group where there was this guy, Miles, who we just got on similar age, done like both love travelling. Like we've had a laugh and I was like, oh, can you do my pension?

14:58 And like, it wasn't about his qualifications. It wasn't about, um, you know, how professionally he talked or any of that. It was because we got on, like you assume people have the relevant, relevant qualifications. And particularly if you've like seen testimonials, you've seen proof, you assume all that stuff's there you buy based on who you align with. So yeah, I, I talk a lot

15:19 about alignment and it's like using your stories to align with. People, but also alignment in the sense of like, is what you're offering actually what they want and what they need. It's there's a lot of different kind of ways that we need to align in our marketing and our work. Um, but yeah, it's so important. Those relationships, nobody wants to buy from

15:38 complete strangers who they have no connection with anymore. Like you've, you've got to have that kind of the resonance there. Yeah. And I think this is so core, isn't it? And what's been so interesting in having this conversation so far is that so much we've talked about requires a human, you know, it, it, it requires human connection,

16:00 which we all crave anyway. So this, this idea that some people say, well, what's gonna happen to human human connection? Well, we crave it. If we don't, we saw that in COVID like it, they, they, you know, the, the, the, the people breaking the rules or at the end, everybody just say, oh my gosh, I can. And the, oh, Christmas is coming. No,

16:18 it's not coming. You know, the, the, the, all this things that happened, but you saw that people wanted to be together. Yeah. And you can't nothing, no technology is ever gonna change that. This is innate inside of us. And so it's really interesting to look at that from a perspective, from a marketing side, cuz people would turn around and say, oh, well, okay, you know, oh,

16:39 I can, I can get chat to BT to write me copy. I can get, um, you know, you can get AI, whatever AI it is. You get it to do stuff for you. Yes, you can. You get to create stuff for you. What we're seeing is that actually, if there's any slight people almost on the end, on the, more of an edge now in terms of looking

16:58 for AI looking for, so I I've, I've, I've, I had somebody once say to me, I had a problem when you upload videos to, to WhatsApp, it can sometimes knock the audio out of sync. And it was a trailer, I think for the first, and somebody said to me, oh, it looks like it's AI because it's out of sync. And I was like, well, it's less likely to be AI if it's out of sync. But, but the point being

17:23 people are looking for that. So that, so that authenticity, so it's even more important because people are almost now looking for fakes and they're going, okay, they're looking for the, they're almost high alert mode for the fakes. Yeah. And one of the things that you've mentioned is the, is, um, that you're using AI to be able to help with, with inspiration. So, so, so talk

17:47 me through, talk me, talk us through that and how you're actually using AI to keep it human, inspired and, and help people to get their messaging, but keep it authentic. Yeah. So I use AI a lot. And when I say AI, I mean, Claude, I don't mean anything more fancy than that. I just mean Claude. Um, but I use it every single day. The main ways that I use it

18:06 are to interview me and I suggest clients do the same. So rather than getting it to write your content for you and just going like, write me a post for a leadership coach. I really don't recommend that you may feel otherwise, but I really don't recommend that. What I say instead, is give it questions to interview you on. So for example, one, if we go back to the personality

18:28 point could be like the, the day in my life, what does that look like? And you could say to, to Claude or to whatever AI that you could say, like, I want you to interview me about my day, get all the details out that I wouldn't think of to tell you myself, blah, blah, blah, blah, like give it a solid prompt and then get it to interview. You can voice note backwards and

18:47 forwards again, getting a bit more of your like authentic voice out. And then what I would say is like, give me notes. I would say, something like, like, don't change any of my words. Don't change any of my tone. Just give me some bullet points or some suggestions around what I could write some

19:01 content around. Um, and like perhaps pull out the parts of my personality that felt strongest, like things like that. So it's not writing the content for you, but I do like it as an interview tool for content. Um, one thing I see a lot that I find hard is that people will write something that's actually really great. And then they'll put it through AI to clean it up.

19:22 And I'm like, the cleaning it up is the part that's just taking your personality out of it. Please don't do that. And I've taken to just replying, like with one-to-one clients, we do like asset reviews and stuff. So I give feedback and the amount of times that people send something and I go, is this you or AI? And they'll be like, well, I wrote it, but then,

19:38 but then I just got AI to clean it up. I'm like, take that out. And then let's look at it again, because what that cleaning up tends to do is take your personality out. And you might disagree on this. And I'm sure there's many ways around this and training and all of that. Um, but that's something I see a lot is that people feel they have to polish things. And because AI is there

19:57 as a tool, they think, oh, I'll just get it to make it sound better. And actually it makes it sound worse. So that's something I see a lot. Um, and the other thing I like to use it for is just like keeping track of everything. So like with, with clients, I like to give it all of my transcripts, all of my like conversations with them, everything that we're doing, um, all of the notes and then

20:22 help me to structure the next session or, um, pull out the feedback that they gave or, you know, any of that, those are probably the core, the core uses I find for it. Yeah, that's fantastic. And I think when I look at the principles of using, using AI, break it down into three things. The first thing is that we want to make sure the human is asking

20:47 the question, right? So you're taking that, you're saying, okay, the human is provided the input. You have some sort of creation execution piece, which, which is, so you said you're getting it to review. And interestingly, yeah, you could, you know, if you say the downside to, if you say, you know, act like a copywriter, it's going to take it is going to buy some of that. And you

21:08 say it's going to rewrite some of that. Whereas if you're getting it to review it as a song with a particular lens, then you've, as you say, you're getting that separate feedback. What's great about that is that you're giving it, you're getting a separate output on you. You're getting, this is thing this is what its response is and then your ability to go okay well actually i could do that

21:26 and i could do this and we talked in a previous podcast about our cognitive ability to actually ensure that we continue to can we need to continue to grow more in our creativity so we don't want to farm out to ai that side of it so so in that space you're still getting you're still part of that and then the other element of it is the evaluation so you'll get you're checking it and

21:51 the dangers of you spoke that if you if you go you get it to polish and you try to polish then are you comparing what it was before are you reading it out and going as you said earlier aloud and saying would i say this to somebody and if it doesn't sound like you if it sound it might sound like somebody you might like to be but the is that really gonna work and if it does

22:13 work what happens then when you're trying to have human conversations and yeah there's a disconnect between between that and the other element of it is the evaluation so you're trying to improve it and you're trying to be better at it and um and yes i still recommend that you keep the the from what you're you're doing so that's just one thing i find that i've learned but you

22:27 can you can if you like the development that i add into that is which it sounds like you're doing as well is the development so you go back and you go well how did that whole process go where it go well actually i can go back and i can improve the the prompt so i can i can update the Claude's skill to make sure that it does that does that more in the the future i think that's brilliant it's great

22:47 to the fact that you're using that using it for inspiration that you're encouraging people to say I've gone back previously, recently, I'm a Christian and I got my testimony that I put on when I came to faith in 2016. And I haven't looked at it in years.

23:02 And yet somebody's reading it and they're like, oh, wow, this is just so beautiful. And I was like, but that wasn't, that was before AI. So there's a danger, isn't there, that we take away that just because,

23:12 and it won't be necessarily the most brilliant piece of writing because I'm not a copywriter, but it's authentically me. It's probably one of the more authentic pieces that I have out there. In fact, anything that I've written previous to AI

23:26 would have maybe been checked by Grammarly, but that is a, you know, that's pretty much that, oh yeah, okay, that is a grammar problem or something like that. But I think that's actually, what I love about this podcast

23:39 is every podcast people bring out some insights and things that maybe I hadn't actually considered. And I've considered using AI for inspiration, but admittedly in the past,

23:49 I've also used it to take the inspiration and feed me back an updated version. But the more you do that, as we've been talking about, the less authentic it becomes.

23:59 And then you wonder why it doesn't work. It's like, okay, nobody's really engaging with what I've said or people are not. Because I remember many years ago, I mean, I'm supposed to show my age now,

24:11 but there used to be something called Microsoft FrontPage. It was a very early way. You could graphically come out a website. It's the very first website I created like that.

24:21 And I did that. I was so pleased with myself. I was like, this is brilliant. So I put it online.

24:26 And back then there wasn't a huge number as many websites that are online. But when I looked around, it all looked like mine. And I was like, no.

24:34 And so that was the problem. That is the problem if we overuse any tool in terms of a creative process, that we end up losing that.

24:42 So I really love, and I think that's such a great approach. In terms of making sure that we're using it for inspiration and challenging because we can use it for challenge as well. Can't we just say, okay, well, how could I improve it?

24:58 Or actually I've described, I love what you said about you describing your day. I've described my day. I've described who I am.

25:04 I described what I value. You know, does this, does this represent me? You know, is it, is this authentically me? Does it, what does it appear to be?

25:12 You can come back. Well, I actually know it's not really you put some stuff in there. I think it's like getting it to give you feedback rather than getting it to change it.

25:21 I think that's quite key because it's like, it's outsourcing your creativity, isn't it? And AI can't really be creative, right? Because it's taking the kind of average.

25:29 So what it's then kind of doing is making you sound more average, which is what keeps you invisible. That's the way I see it as a non AI expert. But that's the way I see it.

25:38 It's like, it's making you average. And we don't want to be average. We want to be creative. And there's a thing like a, which one is it?

25:45 An expert is someone who knows, all the stuff and can like regurgitate to all of the information. And that's what AI can do. A thought leader is someone who has fresh ideas and AI cannot be a thought thought leader.

25:56 Like that was kind of how I try and explain it to people is like, I was started with a new client the other day and he kind of presented me with this post that he had written with AI. And I was explaining that he suddenly doesn't sound like the top person

26:09 in his industry anymore. He sounds like somebody who's kind of copying other people and you're kind of giving it your, your, like, I think you're discrediting yourself if you let it write for you because

26:22 it's suddenly not you and it's not your ideas. Yeah. A hundred percent. And something else that comes to mind as we're talking as well. And I mentioned this in a previous episode is bias. So there's, there's two, two types of bias we have this bias in the,

26:38 in the data that the AI has been trained upon and it's, it's, it's improving, but even though the improvement of the data, that's only, that's introducing bias, right? So we're trying to fix the fact that if you,

26:51 if you put into AI something or, you know, something that may be typically online, which is not necessarily the reality, but typically is seen as a male role,

27:01 then you're going to get a male. So that if you tie that into what we're talking, you said earlier, if you ask it to act like something or to behave in a way or to give you copy, it could be biased to a particular male or a female voice. So, but again, it combines, like you say,

27:19 it's not a real personality. And somebody, I had a talk a few months ago and they said, it's more like simulated intelligence than artificial. I think that helps a lot when you think it's running a simulation.

27:29 So it's pretending to be something it's pretending to be that. And if you're getting it to pretend to be you, then it's, it's even if so, I mean, you mentioned you get, you can, you can train and you can,

27:45 it depends on what the impact is on the, on your picture but sometimes it's just very much was similar to what you said about the day. But just talking through just the thoughts just dropping every single thing in there. So, so, and they have, you know, a bot that's basically them and yeah, okay. You can,

28:07 you can talk to that bot. You can get a feel for, for those things. And even if you generate content using that bot, if you don't check it,

28:14 CV and they said should I should I modify my CV Perron I said absolutely as long as it's still authentically authentic as long as you can justify anything you put in there don't put anything in there that means that they're going to go oh yeah so you said you do this this and this and you're like ah that pause and go that like oh is is is yeah I've been at the other end of that as a

28:37 recruiter I'm like no that I've got I'm I'm already I'm out you know I'm out there's a there's a there's a little little kind of mark in there so that absolutely and I think it's the comeback to that cognitive thing as well is if we if we want to use AI as a tool we want to use it as a tool that grows us and I think with the approach you're taking it's about growth isn't it it's saying

28:58 actually you're taking your clients through a process of growing and you're using AI in a way to support you in helping them in their growth and helping them actually land those clients that aren't just you as we mentioned earlier not necessarily you know they might not be the big deal but over the time period of the relationship they end up being you know the actual the people that

29:22 you get you know greater part of the company income from because of the fact that they're a recurring client because we talk of this a lot don't we in the the cost of acquisition of a client and the more longer you can keep you can have clients for the better because you're not having to go through that same process whereas if you're actually having to

29:42 do what there are some other techniques that people use which is all about the numbers and get numbers and you might get I get I get stuff coming through I can tell it's about numbers it's it's it's not generic it's not authentic and it might land with one or two people out of a thousand and that but the cost of them doing that but even if they do the work is there going to be any

30:04 relationship probably not because they're not coming from that relational space in the first place yeah yeah that's something I always think about is that it's not going to be a relationship with like the the numbers game of like cold sales messages is even if you do convert somebody are they going to be a good client probably not like you know I had a guy a while ago who

30:25 messaged me asking for my help and then when I suggested we had a chat to see if we actually got on he was like no I'm too busy for that um you know just just send me a thing and I'll decide that way and I was like actually no I said because I can't work with somebody that I don't align with first of all don't know what to do I never like that but so

30:42 like I can't I literally can't work with somebody if we don't align if we don't get on so it kind of works both ways I think but it's yeah how people sell when there's no relationship there I I don't really get it yeah I mean there's somebody at the moment so I was on her podcast I think it's coming out in a few in a few weeks but we got really well and and so we're exploring how

31:06 we could do stuff together and she asked me we had a conversation yesterday she wants to help with something so it's it's almost the other way around going oh how can you help me I'd love to work with how can you help me and isn't that a wonderful thing to get from somebody that says actually I'd really love to

31:22 work with you how do we work that out because at that point you don't even necessarily have defined products you just you just said we have this relationship I love what you're doing how can we how can we work in that space rather than saying well this is this is I mean just before we started I said to you I said actually I'd really love to have more further conversation

31:42 maybe you can support me in my business because I'm resonating with the things that you're talking about the approach the authenticity of that the wanting to be my authentic self everywhere I appear on online and in person as well because that's the other challenge isn't it I I'm a I'm a terrible one I have been anyway of going to networking meetings and to have a different

32:11 message and tweaking my messaging all the time and I and it's never consistent and I spoke to somebody recently who's doing really well in in their new business and he said yeah I've just been saying the same message for eight months because I've been delivering the same message and and he goes now just everything I'm

32:29 doing is working because if there's the people like yep I know who that person is I know what it is that they do and sometimes there is a fear in that isn't there there can be a fear in that well I might miss out yes but actually I'm not sure I'm not sure I'm not sure I'm not sure you will you will gain more than you'll miss out on if people actually really understand who you

32:49 who you are yeah I describe it like being Marmite and I feel like Marmite probably going to come and try and sue me one day but I describe it like being Marmite and that you you have to you have to be bold in who you are and what you do and what your message is and know that you're going to be repelling people and want that like you have to want to push people away because if you're not

33:07 pushing anyone away you're definitely not attracting the right people and I know that's I am very much people pleaser so I know how scary that is but you can't be vague like being vague just go straight over people's heads like we said earlier no one's going to relate to it no one's going to go oh that's for me whereas I know like if I even the other day I did a 10-minute

33:27 presentation in a networking group as you do and um a lot of them were sat there sort of a bit like like some quite weird like and I make silly jokes and all of this and it used to terrify people are sat there looking a bit like like what is she on about but there was one guy the whole time was like this and he straight after he was like i have to work with you um like that was

33:47 literally like you just built that presentation for me and like how do i work with you i need to work with you and he signed up to my programme and like with no questions no um you know it wasn't a sales process he just saw something he liked and he brought it and it's not being afraid to push people away so that you can attract those people because if i'd just gone in like really vanilla

34:08 really like trying to please everybody he wouldn't have he wouldn't have brought yeah and it's that that relation thing is is so important but you made it but you put those two things together there's the relational and there's the clarity of messaging so about 15 years ago i had somebody say to me i'd love to work with you shaun

34:28 i don't know on what but i'd love to work with you because i i had like three or four different hats i was wearing i was i was like oh yeah yeah love your energy then so that relationally was great but the messaging wasn't there and so it's those components isn't it that you can have messaging and clear messaging and

34:46 that can you know that can certainly help but then if you've got the relationship as well if you're building that relationally and not worrying about because the danger sometimes can be your seniors as well not people i imagine that um are in business and got networking is there some people that about relationships some of the clear messages some not with clear messages and

35:05 there are some that just see cash signs above everybody's heads and they're just there to no matter what your message is going to messaging is going to be they're really asking you what you do because they just want you to quickly get around that so they can tell you what they do and unfortunately that's the case but it comes back to the two those two things together isn't

35:25 it relationship and the messaging you get those two things right and then yeah there's well the world is your oyster oyster is that yeah yeah i totally agree with that and like the message is one of the core things that i work on with people because i i know that fear so well i've got a lot of walking into a networking group because i most of my work is online and it's like about your online

35:46 content but it works for everything it is about the fact that you want to walk into that networking group and not panic when someone says what do you do and like you said make that something different every time you want to know like this is what i do and for them to go oh amazing i know someone that needs that like so that's one of the main things that i like to work on with people

36:04 is like how are we going to get that so crystal clear so that like your bloke said he can you can go at it solid for eight months and know that it's bringing you a return not kind of panicking and changing it each time yeah absolutely and is that i know i think you mentioned it earlier but it's the confidence isn't it so it's the you're you know this this

36:21 message is authentically you so you can have the confidence and deliver it and i've done i spent i don't know how many hours as you can probably imagine using ai to to to write me stuff to inspire stuff to to help me to think of think all this stuff through you know pages and pages of of stuff do i have the confidence in in the better with humans i do

36:42 but in the in the business in the tech that gets business no i don't have the confidence in and that's been the missing piece for me which is why you know i'd like to talk to you further about that because it's that's the thing that's missing it's the confidence and and how do i get the confidence i was not going to give me confidence right it's it's never going to give

36:58 me confidence it's not the only thing that's going to give me confidence is to get the messaging right to keep it consistent working with somebody like yourself actually is helping me through that i have the confidence that there's an expert you know there's some a thought leader that's going this is it is this is pretty good and then seeing the result and so the part of that confidence is built we

37:17 never build confidence overnight do we so it's that okay i get a good response from that but stick with it you know it's good you've done put in the effort stick with it and then after a period of time you're going okay right people are now saying to me well you know what we know what you do because sometimes you get pegged as well you don't use somebody um i mentioned the church in

37:35 the church environment i did the audio visuals and even now i haven't done it for two years but even now if i go and say to somebody i'm talking about business like oh yeah you should you should go and offer audio visuals to church and i go no that's not what i do yeah that's not what i want to do but

37:49 they've put me in that frame because i haven't reframed it i haven't yeah consistently come with a different message to say this is what i do this is how i this is how i turn up and i think that's what i take from this it is and messages don't land overnight like i used to do a lot more linkedin training than i do now like i still love linkedin i still do the odd training but

38:10 i i like the way i do it and i think that's what i do and i think that's what i do and i think that's why the strategy and everything we've been talking about today but it took me probably six months of really solidly going at the new messaging for people to think of me for that rather than just for linkedin even like a networking group that i do every single week

38:26 one person in there still thinks that i do linkedin and that's because they they put you in that box so that shows like my linkedin messaging was really strong and they now aren't able to listen to anything else so it's like taking that time and not expecting it to click overnight as well yeah absolutely

38:42 that's definitely something i'm taking from this and i've learned personally myself is keep changing and tweaking it's it's actually worth spending the time making sure that your message is authentic that you've got something that you're the rest you you would say as you say to existing clients even check it out with existing clients

39:01 and then be able to do that for consistently the times that people start to resonate and go you are the you are because i mean because i do a lot with with um ai training training consultancy but it's still tech so there's still a danger i just become the tech guy and that's quite a hard thing to do because people like people i've been a course with

39:20 somebody around ai and they're still saying to me oh yeah oh well yeah it's good to know somebody that's into tech because the trouble is that they i want you to do other stuff it's it's that well that and that's a whole nother conversation but probably for a different thing which is which is in terms of what you know making sure that you stick to the thing that you say you're doing

39:39 okay and you deliver the thing you say you're doing but i find people will go oh yeah can you do this for me can you go and you fix my pc and it's like well that isn't really i could do those things but it's not what i do and if i do do those things then i'm actually potentially changing the uh i'm distorting the message yeah i need to deliver on the message

39:57 definitely and a lot of that like as like a tip for people is like is expert language because it might be because you understand all of that tech that potentially the language that you're then using when you describe your work goes a bit technical which makes people just put you into this tech box so it's also about like using

40:17 the language that your ideal client will use which is really hard the longer you've been in industry the harder it is because you think those words are normal but they're not so that's like market research it's asking them you know it's doing this even like looking on forums what's the language people are using because that can often be why we get put in maybe slightly the wrong box

40:37 is we just confuse people and they go well they must do that thing you know that's true i i think that's a wonderful tip to to uh to close on because yeah yeah particularly from a tech background but any background isn't it we've all got our jargon and i think that's really really you know fabulous advice to say if people are kind of going oh i even yesterday i'm thinking

40:58 now i had a meeting yesterday and i was i was doing the same thing so it's it's i'll be taking that on board myself and say it's been amazing to have you meg i just want to make sure that people can can find you connect with you if i'm sure there's gonna be plenty of you that are going to resonate with what you've been speaking about so how do they how they get in contact with you if

41:16 they want to find out more yeah so find me on linkedin um that's probably still my main hangout spot just meg hutson um don't try and find me under megan you won't find me megan anywhere um and instagram as well is it's meg hutson so i don't know if there'll be show notes that you can pop the links into or anything like that but that that's where to find me drop me a message say

41:35 you've listened and i'd love to love to chat yeah yeah absolutely it will be show notes and i'll put the links in the the show notes as well so thank you so much for coming and if you've been listening and you've enjoyed this podcast then please check check the links in the show notes and like and subscribe and

41:51 whatever channel that you're coming on and i'd love to hear from people if you've got any thoughts on particular subjects that you'd want to look at when it comes into uncovering what is better with humans and once again meg thank you so much for your time it's been a great episode thank you it's been lovely to chat